Need some Braid help!!

[jab]

whenever i had that problem the line was to big.

[tarponfishnut]

TO BIG? WHAT DO YOU MEAN, TO BIG?

[ripnlips]

Jan 26, 2009 22:18:15 GMT -5 goindeep said:

I don't think I've ripped any lips....

............sorry. had to do it.

[ripnlips]

braid does take some getting used to. kinda like driving a new car. once you find where all the buttons and switches are it's easy. i will give you this advice.

#1. learn how to tie knots for braid before you go fishing. it will save you much heartache (trust me). nothing sux worse than a failed knot in fishing.

#2 always use a leader weather you use braid, mono, or fluro.
it just takes a few tail beats or a set of sharp teeth to cut thru your main line. you never know what is gonna be hungry when that bait swims in front of it.

good luck with it.

[jab]

im sorry i was talkin about mono.

[Look'n4Tuna]

You didn't say if you were using a spinning reel or casting reel. But I has no problems on my Daiwa SS spinning reel, everything was reel (pun intended) smooth. So I wasn't sure if you were talking about a birdsnest or backlash?

[tarponfishnut]

Both reels are spinning reels. As far as knots go, I'm learning as I go along but have a few I'm working on for normal use. As far as leaders go, I always use a leader with a barrel swivel, usually just use a mono leader, as I cant afford the expensive stuff! But, I do like to use the barrel swivels and snaps on my rigs for simplicity.

Thanks!!

[inshorebasher]

hey Tarp no feelings hurt at all, my bad it was late and thought i'd try but new video being uploaded as we speak. As for your tangles, with braid it is very easy to get wind knots or loops in your spool which will cause a headache and possible loss of a lot of line.

Like you said I encounter this when I am using lures but lighter lures to be specific. some times when i retreive my line i like to hold it as i reel in to make sure its tight and not slacked when retreving it.

also make sure you look at your spool before you cast for loops inside. they will come out and twist onto your line and take a while to unwrap.

once a knot is formed you will notice your braid's wax looking thinner in that knotted area or discolor a sign of weakness but maybe okay in some cases just waxed off. also with heavier lures, weights...etc... if there is any pointe, or "CATCH" in the eye of your knot,rod, or bail or your reel your braid will snap at that pointe clean when you cast out! Horrible way to loose a $6 krocodile spoon and yds. of PP.

[diggin4grouper]

Jan 26, 2009 3:25:49 GMT -5 eaglesfanguy said:

Damn Jay...

Tell me how ya Really feel!

This simple thread has definately hit the toilet...

Cant we all just fish along!..

I might just add a bit of... referrence..

Teddy.. You got pics.. bro.. but we dunno if your using mono, braid, or a combo.
Heck you might be holding other peoples fish .. who knows..
And with your commercial background... hmmmmmmm possibly caught in a net?.. and you went to great lengths to make it look like its a pier caught fish..lol
you just never know. people do go through great obsticles to make it look like there that good.

So your proof.. just falls to Hearsay..


Next time ya wanna go all out about your point.. maybe provide better evidence........ Just my observing opinion...

Stephen (eaglesfanguy )

sorry been working and couldnt respond to your comments there ..

[glow=red,2,300] You got pics.. bro[/glow]

yes i do have a few of them

[glow=red,2,300]but we dunno if your using mono, braid, or a combo.[/glow]

i use braid with about a foot and a half 30lb leader

[glow=red,2,300]Heck you might be holding other peoples fish .. who knows..[/glow]

i by no means need to take picture with other peoples fish . i know how to fish ...
[glow=red,2,300]
And with your commercial background... hmmmmmmm possibly caught in a net?..[/glow]

my commerical background is shrimping and snapper fishing and havent been out in almost 2 years now ecept on a few kingfish boats .......... and the only thing i catch in a net that i keep is mullet and pinfish !!!!!!!!!!!!


[glow=red,2,300]and you went to great lengths to make it look like its a pier caught fish..lol
you just never know. people do go through great obsticles to make it look like there that good.[/glow]

i dont fake a photo i can catch fish and i fish SI alot so if you want you can come over here and ill prove it to you . i dont need make it look like it was caught some where when the pic is taken thats where the dam thing was caught and most of the time released . i have no need to lie about a fish and if you think i do SCREW YOU !!!!!!!!!!

and i have meet and fished with inshorebasher out there so thats part of my proof and if you still think i need to lie about where and when i catch fish then this site isnt worth the time any more and nither are you .

[jab]

that was a good video inshore basher.

[tarponfishnut]

Hey Basher............... NICE VIDEO!!! Much better dude! Looks like a real easy knot to tie also, I'll have to try it sometime.

Also, thanks for the info on the braid........ good stuff!

Tight Lines!!

[jmfishin]

what kind of tangles and when do they happen?

[havetofish]

Good question jmfishin.
I don't remember ever having a braid tangle, except when I've snagged some other line and got wrapped up. I have never had a wind knot either. Unless, someone is talking about backlash on a conventional reel.

[filletnrelease]

I have had my share of wind knots. It usually happens when I use a light lure. One of the reasons I always liked Braid is the distance you can cast using very little weight. Guess an occasional wind knot is the cost.

[tarponfishnut]

Jan 30, 2009 11:40:48 GMT -5 jmfishin said:

what kind of tangles and when do they happen?

Well, keep in mind I'm new to this (braid) and I haven't even had a chance to try out my new pole. The one I have used, only a few times, is my heavier outfit. It would good for offshore type fishing but when I 1st got it, I was trying it out with a 6" Rapala plug testing it out.

Now I know you gotta keep the line fairly tight on the reel, but every few casts, no matter how hard I tried, I kept getting these wads of line coming off in these big tangles. I wound up having to cut off quite a bit of line, but after a bit, it seemed to get better.

The line was put on when bought at the Tackle store so I figured it should have been put on tight enough. (I won't mention What store)

Do you think it was to much line maybe? Or just not tight enough? Or what???

Thanks Everyone!!!

"TIGHT LINES! SCREAMING DRAGS!! & FULL COOLERS!!!"

;D

[havetofish]

You bring up a good point about too much line. If the spool is too full and the line is loose on the spool it can cause what you discribe. I like about at least 1/8 inch of room to the edge of the spool. The other thing is I have never used Spiderwire Stealth, only PP or Tuf Line XP, so that may have something to do with it.
Another thing is if you breakoff your line, make sure you put some tension on it when you reel it in, or it will be loose and can cause problems.

[Tommy]

I'd have to agree about the loose line. JJ spooled his diawa 40W with 80PP and didn't get it tight on the spool, not only did it slip around the spool he also had bad problems with it backlashing when he cast. Re-spooling it on the pier fixed it all.

Here's a little article on leaders and knot's and the terminology.

Leaders, Shock Leaders, and Leader Knots
by Brian Mulholland

One question regularly posted in SurfTalk is when and how to use a shock leader. Queries about shockers are right up there with questions about the best rod, and what phase of the moon produces best in the surf. As I write, the fall season is fast approaching and all but one of my reels have a shock leader installed. It's a good time to talk about their use.

First, some definitions. A shock leader is a leader long enough so that half a dozen wraps of leader remain on the spool up to the moment you release the cast. The knot that joins the leader to the running line comes off the reel and goes through the guides during the cast. If that knot isn't on the spool and under a few wraps of line when you release the cast, it isn't a shock leader. Got that? If the running line's connected to the leader by a knot or barrel swivel that stays outside the tip, it's a leader, but not a shock leader. On a typical Long Island surf rod of ten or eleven feet, a shock leader is twenty feet long. Any longer than twenty feet and you'll disqualify your all-tackle striper record from consideration with the IGFA.

A shock leader protects the leader/line knot from the load of the cast by keeping it on the spool. A knot that's a few wraps down is well insulated from the stress of the cast, which is far more punishing to the knot then anything a fish might do.

The use of a shock leader is necessary when casting with the pendulum cast, a type of sidearm swing that's powered the casting record past 300 yards. Competition rules specify both running line (typically by diameter; twelve pound test is normal) and shock leader (ten pounds' test for each ounce of payload.) Casting competitions are standardized on 150 gr. sinkers, which are about 5� oz., and therefore require a 50 lb. shock leader. Use of a shock leader is mandatory when fishing with the pendulum cast, because the peak load comes with the sinker at right angles to the intended direction on release. A snapped line sends the sinker down the beach - very, very fast. One snapped-off sinker penetrated a wall of a 55 gallon drum, and I know of another that killed a car radiator. The pendulum cast is another subject, but if you're trying it, you must use a shock leader. (If you're interested, the latest instructional video is from Neil MacKellow.

A shock leader's a useful everyday surf tool, even with an ordinary, overhand cast. I've used one for many years, on my standard surf spinning outfit (Lami 120-1L, Penn 750SS) and on conventional rods with a Newell G229 and GS 525. Twenty feet of forty pound mono is a good handle on a fish in the wash. You can grab it and drag a bass to shore with no risk of popping the line. The leader also gives you a little abrasion protection when maneuvering a green fish near a jetty or bridge piling.

Using a shock leader mitigates some problems that are inherent in spinning reels. In the late fall, when your hands are stiff and sore, and mono stings like a lash, the thicker leader hurts less than thin running line. The thick leader is also some protection against line cuts. Bait chunkers who use spinning tackle often load the drag beyond capacity when lobbing a sinker and chunk into the wash. The drag slips under the load, line jerks hard across the tip of your casting finger, and the angler has a slashed index finger. Many regulars take a few wraps of electrical tape around their fingertips for a little protection against such a mishap. Spin fishermen who fish bait and several ounces of lead can use a shock leader to save their fingers some injury. A thick length of leader material dulls the cutting edge of the line.

I've also found that a shock leader of mono makes a conventional reel spooled with braid easier to handle. On a conventional reel, the grip of your thumb controls the spool up to the moment of release. Many braided lines have a slick surface that's harder to grip securely than monofilament. A mono over wrap gives the caster a useful increase in control, and allows you to punch that cast a little harder than you might otherwise be able to do.

Braided lines have a lot of good features, but I don't think they should be used for shock leaders. A braided leader on a spinning rod is particularly risky. The same narrow diameter and high strength that extends casting distance also makes the risk of a line cut more severe. If you load that drag too hard, and it slips, you'll have one hell of a trip-ending gash across your finger. Grab a braided leader to beach a fish and you're at risk of a slashed palm, if the fish catches the undertow and makes a good surge. Besides, what if you hang up? The rod might easily snap before the line or leader. Therefore, stick to mono or fluorocarbon for shock leaders. Any mono will do in a pinch, but I prefer soft ones like Quattro Pro.

The downside of using a shock leader is that it introduces another knot into your system. Frank Daignault, whose opinions on fishing I take seriously, dislikes shock leaders for exactly that reason. On the other hand, Crazy Al uses one on his surf tackle as a matter of course. (Crazy Al likes fluorocarbon.) Both these guys are better fishermen than I'll ever be, so you pays your money and takes your choice. There are experts on both sides of this question.

Your choice of knot matters. How well you tie your chosen knot matters a lot more, so stick to one knot till you're really good at it. For mono to mono joins, I'm happy with the Improved Blood Knot. A purist might double the running line with a bimini twist, but my bimini knots fail at a point just inside the knot. Tying the Improved Blood Knot with a doubled strand of running line does help tighten the knot, so I use a double strand; it's just one more tag end to trim. Back to back uniknots are probably o.k. Many guys seem happy with it, but I haven't used the uniknot enough to have a strong opinion. The Bimini Twist is much easier to tie in braid than in mono, even though it needs many more twists. If I were using back to back uniknots to join a mono or fluorocarbon leader to braided running line, I'd double the braid with a bimini before making the uniknot join.

There are other line-to-leader knots like the Huffnagle diagram in various knot books. They may all work, but note that most of these knots were devised before braided superline was widespread. A knot that isn't specifically recommended for use with braided line has to be treated as unreliable until proven safe. For more knotty references, consult "Practical Fishing Knots II," (Sosin and Kreh) or "Geoff Wilson's Complete Book of Fishing Knots and Rigs," (Geoff Wilson, obviously enough). The latter may require a trip to the Braid Products website, but try the SOL link to Amazon first.

I see many knots recommended by anglers who add a mono leader to a braided running line. The one I use is Alberto's Knot (yeah, Crazy Al again). This is a clever updating of the Albright, made to take better advantage of braided line. In the old version, you make a loop in the leader, insert the running line through the loop, wind upwards for a few turns, insert the tag end of the running line back out the loop on the same side as it entered, lubricate and snug up. In the Alberto's Knot variation, you insert the braid tag end through the mono leader loop, wind up a few turns, catch the braid at the top and hold it, make the same number of turns back down as you made going up, exit and snug up. This way the braid wraps over itself as well as over the loop of leader material. Make sure the knot tightens evenly, not from one end to the other.

This knot is known only to the online angling community. It hasn't yet been described in print, so not too many people have used it. SOL regulars may recall that Alberto hung a very large fish, species unknown, that ran 300 yards of 30 lb. braid from Alberto's VS 200. The knot didn't fail - the braid did, eventually. (Best guess: a shark in triple digits). That's as much of a test as a surf angler could want. Whether this knot would hold up in use with the pendulum cast and with 5-6 oz. sinkers is undetermined, at least yet. Baitfishing with the pendulum is far harder on all knots than plug work, since the payloads are heavier. I think it'll work, but haven't done enough baitfishing with the pendulum to know for sure, so proceed cautiously if you do so. Ron Arra, Crazy Al and other masters of distance casting (at least the ones I know about) stick to mono for max range, and knot reliability under extreme casting is a part of the reason.

Knot failure usually starts with the knot's slipping. Any knot has to be snugged down well to hold, and skinny braids are hard to set because they cut the angler's hands so easily. To get your knot nice and tight, leave generous amounts of tag end on both line and leader. For a better hold on the braid, tightly wrap some hard-rolled newspaper in heavy rubber tape. Wrap the braid running line and the tag end of the braid around the roll before final tightening. It is not necessary to apply superglue. A dab of Pliobond or other rubber cement might help things tighten more easily, acting as a lubricant. Hey, if it gets you one more pair of tight loops around the leader, it's worth doing.

Adding a shock leader to braided running line may cause odd problems in some spinning outfits. Some spinning reels just don't like braid; some line/leader combinations do weird things together. I removed a fifty lb. test leader from thirty pound PowerPro on my 750SS because the end of the leader sometimes struck the gathering guide very hard. A lighter or heavier leader might have solved the problem; so might a change of braid. This is the kind of fast interaction problem that engineering students love, but all I want to do is go fish. Changing the problem combination was easier than tweaking the leader's length.

One specialty leader product that more fishermen should try is the tapered leaders made by Varivas and available either from Ron Sutton or Veal's Mail Order. Veal's service is excellent, don't worry about the pond in between. The leaders are thirty feet long and taper from about seventeen pound test to seventy pounds. The use of the full length will knock you out of IGFA contention, but you can trim the leader back a bit. A leader that's the same diameter as typical mono running line, at the near end where you'll tie them together, makes for easier knotting.

Many fishermen use a teaser with a plug or tin as a matter of course. I don't like putting a dropper loop, for a teaser or for anything else, in my shock leader. A standoff dropper knot does too much to reduce the strength of the line. Your results may vary.

There is one time and situation when I don't use a shock leader. Little tunny, a.k.a. false albacore or Fat Alberts, bonito, and Spanish mackerel are all notoriously line shy. During the August through September season when they might show up, I always have a spinning rig at hand, ready to present a small diamond or tin. The spinning rig in question is tipped with a few feet of fluorocarbon, but not in shock leader lengths. You could just as well tie the jig to straight light running line. Otherwise, I can't see a reason not to use one.

[jmfishin]

well if theres too much braid on. then when you cast it will keep comming of in clumps till it has the correct amount on the spool.

[jmfishin]

i think it would be cool to have a slow mo vidio of the line going off the spool and getting all tangled. and realy see what happens

[GoinDeep]

Jan 28, 2009 20:36:59 GMT -5 ripnlips said:

Jan 26, 2009 22:18:15 GMT -5 goindeep said:

I don't think I've ripped any lips....

............sorry. had to do it.