fishtailz
Rod Polisher
Hour and a half drive to get there but love the skyway piers. Big fish available.
Posts: 119
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Post by fishtailz on Jul 13, 2023 13:32:05 GMT -5
OK. It's time I found out. What is the deal with Spanish Mackeral. I have been on this forum for a month and a half now and it seems almost everybody that posts are all gung-ho for Mackeral. I ask myself, "is this a Skyway thing?" Mackeral this and Mackeral that. Where are the Macks? Holy Mackeral. Mackeralman. I just did a little research and see they are supposed to be good eating. It's obvious that they are targeted by alot of people there. What's up with that? Rarely do I see Snook mentioned on the Forum. Surely there must be some bruisers cruising the piers. Have yet to see that someone has hooked one up there. The last time I got into some Mackeral was off the beach by the lighthouse at Boca Grande Pass. About 5 years ago. Every cast. All catch and release. Never seemed like a fish that was worth targeting. Maybe if I ate one I wouldn't throw another one back.
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Post by shot33gun9 on Jul 13, 2023 13:41:55 GMT -5
For me they are just fun to catch, I don't keep many, give them away mostly. Keep a few at times for my smoker, very good when smoked. True there are some slot snook around those rockpiles, but with all the restrictions on snook now it's just not worth fishing for them, plus the dolphins do everything they can to snatch your bait before it reaches the prime zone. There is no closed season on macks...yet.
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Post by stuckintherocks on Jul 13, 2023 15:02:35 GMT -5
I think some of the most memorable days at skyway were the days the mackerel were so thick that you could throw a straw in the water and catch a mack (literally) I didn’t understand the hype at first until just a couple years ago when I started fishing for them, and when they are around thick like most of the forum members are waiting/looking for they are just so abundant and fun to catch that they make for an extremely fun day of fishing, they fight hard, and being able to smoke a bunch and share with friends/family is just a bonus. Snook are around but not abundant and I’ve never seen a red or black drum caught from the pier although I am sure they are out there. When things are good it is very easy (for some) to come out to the pier at 7am and leave by 10am with a little quick, easy, and fun limit of mackerel. The problem is when 200 other anglers do the same and they are all leaving with 15 mackerel it’s only a matter of time before numbers decrease and we go a whole year without seeing as many.. (this year)
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Post by seabird on Jul 13, 2023 15:18:19 GMT -5
Mackerel are sought after because: they are relatively easy to catch vs other fish such as sheepshead and snapper. They are easy to clean. They can be large. And they put up a good fight. They are good tasting fish, just take care to keep your catch cold.
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Post by shot33gun9 on Jul 13, 2023 15:18:23 GMT -5
That's right "slingshot with an acorn", countless days I've started fishing around daylight and had 2 limits by 9am. Get a limit, give them away, move to another spot and get another limit. When I fish I target one species, I don't confuse it thinking I can switch over and catch something else.
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Post by Flatsrunner on Jul 13, 2023 15:19:35 GMT -5
The fishing at the SSP went downhill around the time of the piney point mess, Snook have been caught at the beaches and passes lately. I'm guessing the Macks followed the bait to better water. There is a tremendous amount of pressure on the weekends on the piers.
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Post by shot33gun9 on Jul 13, 2023 15:34:40 GMT -5
When you say pressure are you talking about hooks in the water or people actually catching fish? From what I've seen out there probably 90% of the people that fish there don't catch squat.
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Post by Flatsrunner on Jul 13, 2023 16:20:28 GMT -5
100 cars equals maybe 200 people every weekend trying to catch the small groups of resident and migratory fish. Day after Day.
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Post by shot33gun9 on Jul 13, 2023 16:50:37 GMT -5
From my observations over the years I believe the fishing in the bay goes through cycles, we'll have a few years of lights out fishing then it fades to not so good but will eventually rebound back to good fishing. From what I've heard fishing on the St. Pete side of the bay is pretty good
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Post by carlf on Jul 14, 2023 7:27:35 GMT -5
Good to eat, put up a fights and can be easy to catch a limit. Same with snapper, the other prime target.
Overall, Mac stocks in the Gulf are in very good shape But they move around a lot following the bait and water temps/clarity they prefer. So you might not be catching them but a boat a mile away might be bailing them left and right.
BTW, landing and keeping two limits in one day, whether you keep them or give them away, is illegal. I would not advise or advertise doing it.
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Post by tears143 on Jul 14, 2023 7:58:57 GMT -5
Mackerel are sought after because: they are relatively easy to catch vs other fish such as sheepshead and snapper. They are easy to clean. They can be large. And they put up a good fight. They are good tasting fish, just take care to keep your catch cold. Hit the nail on the head. They are easy fish to catch when they are around and you can keep a lot of them. Also they don't taste that bad and easy to clean. Even my nieces and nephew at 5 yrs old can catch them when they are around. My sister in law that never fish before can limit out on them when the school is around. So that's why a lot of people are waiting around for the big school to show up.
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Post by bluerunner on Jul 15, 2023 0:38:42 GMT -5
Whats the point of catching a limit to give away, only to go catch another limit? Why not just catch and release instead just killing them? Did you choke on a mackerel as a kid or something and now taking out vengeance on them?
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Post by shot33gun9 on Jul 15, 2023 10:46:52 GMT -5
So, giving fish to others that have been there for hrs without catching anything is wrong? You would rather throw them back in the water when there are others that will gladly take them home? And by the way Carlf, you can't get busted for fish you don't have in your possession, without that it becomes hearsay
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Post by carlf on Jul 15, 2023 14:59:21 GMT -5
It is illegal. Period. End of discussion. Maybe you get caught. Most likely you don't. But it's still illegal. If a witness testifies against you, you can be convicted. Posting that you did it is also admissible in court.
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Post by shot33gun9 on Jul 15, 2023 15:21:48 GMT -5
Waste of time Carl, I posted it yes, but, how do you know I actually did it? This is a fishing forum, lies will be posted
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Post by fishsci on Jul 15, 2023 15:25:14 GMT -5
Whats the point of catching a limit to give away, only to go catch another limit? Why not just catch and release instead just killing them? Did you choke on a mackerel as a kid or something and now taking out vengeance on them? I am not sure why my post about this earlier did not show up, but what I said is that catch and release of mackerel is not a great idea, at least from the Skyway. Studies have shown that when Spanish mackerel are caught from a boat, are handled carefully and quickly, they are likely to survive being caught and released. However, when mackerel are caught from the piers, they Iusually are landed by swinging them up over the railing and then hit the concrete before they are picked up and unhooked. A mackerel is very unlikely to survive after all that. If someone wants to catch and release a mackerel they should land it by bringing it up on the line hand over hand, holding it with a wet hand and unhooking it as quickly as possible. Even then, a mackerel that might survive becaught somewhere else, is going to be dazed and disoriented and is very likely to be almost immediately eaten by a dolphin. Instead of catching and releasing mackerel, a much better idea is to stop fishing for them and fish for snapper, grouper or other bottom fish. In most cases, there is no good reason to catch an entire limit of 15 of them. One reason might be to take them home to smoke them. Otherwise, mackerel are very good to eat, if thay are taken care of properly and eaten fresh. They will not be very good unless they are put on ice as soon as they are caught. Putting them into a bucket of water or letting them lay on the hot concrete until you have accumulated several to take to your cooler does not cut it. Speaking of cutting, clutting their throat, tail, gills or any other so-called "bleeding" does little good if they are not iced down quickly. Mackerel is not a fish that can be frozen and still taste anywhere as good as they do fresh. They have a lot of oils in their flesh, and those oils oxidize even while they are frozen. That gives them the strong fishy taste that those oxidized oils have. The other term for that oxidized taste is rancid. I guess if you put enough spices on any sort of oxidized meat (beef, and particularly pork go rancid too), it can be eaten, but not by me. I suggest that it might be best, to not catch more than your limit, and even then maybe give half of them to some unfortunate fisherman who would otherwise go home with nothing. As for mackerel stocks being in good condition, that is true, but only with regard to how NOAA-NMFS defines good condition now. Spanish and king mackerel were hugely more abundant in the GOM back 50 or more years. Probably there were 10 x as many of each species. That is particularly true with regard to the Tampa Bay area. In the 60's and before, there were huge runs of both mackerels in the spring and fall, particularly in the spring. Huge numbers of kings were caught by recreational and commercial fishermen around the ship channel and all along the Pinellas peninsula. Back then, people hardly wanted Spanish, and they brought only a few cents to the pound to the commercials. You might wonder why the Tampa Bay area had such amazing numbers of mackerels then. Probably, the main reason -- in addition to the overall reduction in the stocks -- was Tampa Bay pollution. No, not because pollution reduced the mackerels numbers, but because the mackerels were reduced because pollution was reduced. Back around the 50's and early 60's Tampa Bay was extremely polluted by the nitrogen in the huge amounts of sewage that was allowed to flow into the bay. That sewage fertilized the bay, and made phytoplankton grow in huge concentrations in the bay. The intense phytoplankton densities supported a food chain that then went up to zooplankton, the to zooplanton-feeding fishes, particularly Atlantic threadfin herring (greenies), scaled sardines (white bait), Spanish sardines (sardines), and round scad (cigar minnows) There was a huge commercial bait fish fishery mainly out of Cortez and Gulfport, and it provided bait fish to all of Florida and beyond. Once the bay was cleaned up, those huge populations of baitfish no longer existed and did not attract, hold, and support the king and Spanish mackerel populations that passed by every spring and fall. So -- as Paul Harvey used to say -- Now you know the REST of the story.
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Post by shot33gun9 on Jul 15, 2023 15:40:56 GMT -5
Man, that's a great read fishsci and I can back up what you said. Stationed at MacDill in Feb '72 the spanish macks were in the bay by the millions, all the way up in nasty Hillsborough Bay. We killed them at the boat basin on base. Looking out over the bay you could see them churning the surface
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Post by tears143 on Jul 15, 2023 18:28:25 GMT -5
Whats the point of catching a limit to give away, only to go catch another limit? Why not just catch and release instead just killing them? Did you choke on a mackerel as a kid or something and now taking out vengeance on them? I am not sure why my post about this earlier did not show up, but what I said is that catch and release of mackerel is not a great idea, at least from the Skyway. Studies have shown that when Spanish mackerel are caught from a boat, are handled carefully and quickly, they are likely to survive being caught and released. However, when mackerel are caught from the piers, they Iusually are landed by swinging them up over the railing and then hit the concrete before they are picked up and unhooked. A mackerel is very unlikely to survive after all that. If someone wants to catch and release a mackerel they should land it by bringing it up on the line hand over hand, holding it with a wet hand and unhooking it as quickly as possible. Even then, a mackerel that might survive becaught somewhere else, is going to be dazed and disoriented and is very likely to be almost immediately eaten by a dolphin. Instead of catching and releasing mackerel, a much better idea is to stop fishing for them and fish for snapper, grouper or other bottom fish. In most cases, there is no good reason to catch an entire limit of 15 of them. One reason might be to take them home to smoke them. Otherwise, mackerel are very good to eat, if thay are taken care of properly and eaten fresh. They will not be very good unless they are put on ice as soon as they are caught. Putting them into a bucket of water or letting them lay on the hot concrete until you have accumulated several to take to your cooler does not cut it. Speaking of cutting, clutting their throat, tail, gills or any other so-called "bleeding" does little good if they are not iced down quickly. Mackerel is not a fish that can be frozen and still taste anywhere as good as they do fresh. They have a lot of oils in their flesh, and those oils oxidize even while they are frozen. That gives them the strong fishy taste that those oxidized oils have. The other term for that oxidized taste is rancid. I guess if you put enough spices on any sort of oxidized meat (beef, and particularly pork go rancid too), it can be eaten, but not by me. I suggest that it might be best, to not catch more than your limit, and even then maybe give half of them to some unfortunate fisherman who would otherwise go home with nothing. As for mackerel stocks being in good condition, that is true, but only with regard to how NOAA-NMFS defines good condition now. Spanish and king mackerel were hugely more abundant in the GOM back 50 or more years. Probably there were 10 x as many of each species. That is particularly true with regard to the Tampa Bay area. In the 60's and before, there were huge runs of both mackerels in the spring and fall, particularly in the spring. Huge numbers of kings were caught by recreational and commercial fishermen around the ship channel and all along the Pinellas peninsula. Back then, people hardly wanted Spanish, and they brought only a few cents to the pound to the commercials. You might wonder why the Tampa Bay area had such amazing numbers of mackerels then. Probably, the main reason -- in addition to the overall reduction in the stocks -- was Tampa Bay pollution. No, not because pollution reduced the mackerels numbers, but because the mackerels were reduced because pollution was reduced. Back around the 50's and early 60's Tampa Bay was extremely polluted by the nitrogen in the huge amounts of sewage that was allowed to flow into the bay. That sewage fertilized the bay, and made phytoplankton grow in huge concentrations in the bay. The intense phytoplankton densities supported a food chain that then went up to zooplankton, the to zooplanton-feeding fishes, particularly Atlantic threadfin herring (greenies), scaled sardines (white bait), Spanish sardines (sardines), and round scad (cigar minnows) There was a huge commercial bait fish fishery mainly out of Cortez and Gulfport, and it provided bait fish to all of Florida and beyond. Once the bay was cleaned up, those huge populations of baitfish no longer existed and did not attract, hold, and support the king and Spanish mackerel populations that passed by every spring and fall. So -- as Paul Harvey used to say -- Now you know the REST of the story. Could it be because of the decline of menhan?... cannot spell to save my life... aka bunker/progy.... east coast and LA still have a ton of them. There were crazy amount of them back in the days until commerical almost wipe them out. I can still find some but not much. This source of food could kept the bay full of Spanish and king mack.
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Post by shot33gun9 on Jul 15, 2023 18:54:29 GMT -5
I never knew we ever had a decent population of menhaden, but there are tons up around Louisiana, there's a big war going on up there with the commercial boats fishing outside the designated boundaries
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Post by fishsci on Jul 15, 2023 20:45:55 GMT -5
Menhaden, Gulf Menhaden (Bervoortian patronus) are a more temperate species, as is the Atlantic menhaden species (Brevortia tyrannus). Both species are largely found related to vey large, major estuarine systems such as the Missiissippi outflow estuary and the Cheasapeake Bay Estuary. There they are found in huge abundances and have been the object of commercial fisheries that harvest the by the millions of tons even though they may bring a very low price and are then industrially converted into fish meal (e.g. for chicken feed) and oil (menhaden oil products).
Gulf menaden are normally found, but not in large abundances, in Tampa Bay sytems, all along the FL Gulf coast, particularly more toward the FL panhandle. I don't know of any assessments of their abundance in the Tampa Bay area, largely because they were not targeted by commercial fishermen because their price was so much less than the other baitfish species. They can be found in small abundance far south along the Southwest FL Gulf Coast. i catch them occasionally from my dock.
It is not determinable how their reduction in abundance in the Tampa Bay area contributed to my previously described reduction in king and Spanish mackerels because we do not know how aboundant they once were.
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Post by tears143 on Jul 15, 2023 22:21:56 GMT -5
Menhaden, Gulf Menhaden ( Bervoortian patronus) are a more temperate species, as is the Atlantic menhaden species (Brevortia tyrannus). Both species are largely found related to vey large, major estuarine systems such as the Missiissippi outflow estuary and the Cheasapeake Bay Estuary. There they are found in huge abundances and have been the object of commercial fisheries that harvest the by the millions of tons even though they may bring a very low price and are then industrially converted into fish meal (e.g. for chicken feed) and oil (menhaden oil products). Gulf menaden are normally found, but not in large abundances, in Tampa Bay sytems, all along the FL Gulf coast, particularly more toward the FL panhandle. I don't know of any assessments of their abundance in the Tampa Bay area, largely because they were not targeted by commercial fishermen because their price was so much less than the other baitfish species. They can be found in small abundance far south along the Southwest FL Gulf Coast. i catch them occasionally from my dock. It is not determinable how their reduction in abundance in the Tampa Bay area contributed to my previously described reduction in king and Spanish mackerels because we do not know how aboundant they once were. If I remember correctly... there were so many in the tampa bay that commercial guy would finish catching all they need to process just around noon and toss back tons of dead one. Read it somewhere a long time ago... only one I find about it now is www.flfish.com/conservation/bait_history.htmAfter they killed all the menhaden, they left tampa bay to fish other areas. I don't think it is all the commercial guys fault that the menhaden is gone but also water and water temp.
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Post by stuckintherocks on Jul 16, 2023 0:02:37 GMT -5
this is the bait fish you guys are speaking of ?? Looks almost identical to a bunker from up north ? I’ve sabikied these fish up in the winter time at night under the lights at the beginning of the pier. They have some decent size to them most being bigger than my hand
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Post by tears143 on Jul 16, 2023 0:08:49 GMT -5
this is the bait fish you guys are speaking of ?? Looks almost identical to a bunker from up north ? I’ve sabikied these fish up in the winter time at night under the lights at the beginning of the pier. They have some decent size to them most being bigger than my hand looks like it.
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Post by fishfinderbill on Jul 16, 2023 7:11:14 GMT -5
Fishsci: This is the first time I've heard an explanation on why fishing has been so bad at SP. The Bay is TOO Clean!. I guess that's as good as any. Maybe to improve fishing we could have a Cruise Line dump their bilge in TB every once in a while. LOL
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Post by carlf on Jul 16, 2023 7:43:54 GMT -5
Like noted, macs need to be iced down immediately and kept cold until cleaned and put in the fridge. That goes for any fish really but is more important for oily fish like macs.
I have very good luck vacuum sealing fillets, they keep well in the deep freeze. Thaw quickly in a pan of cold water and then cook right away. Thawing and keeping in the fridge for a couple of days doesn't work well.
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Post by fishsci on Jul 16, 2023 22:06:58 GMT -5
Tears, that is a nice find ...that article by Capt. Walker. I am very impressed with your thoughtful and substantive replies, and with what apparently is you effort to research issues.
As for the Captain's article, it is typical as coming from the "othe" commercial sector -- for-hire, charter boats and guides. They have always blamed all fishing declines on commercial fishing, and never once admitting that their catches contribute to declines.
But back to the artlcle: Note that the commercial fishery ended, yet menhaden, Spanish sardines, etc. never recovered. There is no good biological reason that once such fisheries are no longer operating, that the fish populations that they supposedly depleted should not have recovered. There still are enough spawning numbers of those species that could allow their local populations to have recovered. The only reasonable hypothesis is that the environment changed -- the reduced N into the bay and reduced planktonic food chain.
There is classicall example of this sort of thing that is or should be tought in Fisheries 101 classes. It is the California sardine collapse -- the old, original one that happened around the 50's to 60's -- and again in the latter 2000's. Each time the scientific concensus is that the collapses occurred due to the combined effects of overfishing and environmental changes.
Exactly how changes in Tampa Bay fisheries were caused probably will never be known for sure, but it is almost sure that a combination of factors were involved.
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