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Post by skywaypa on May 2, 2022 9:23:11 GMT -5
Had a buddy in from PA this weekend so we grabbed a full day trip with Badfish Charters. Started out at 6:30am at Cockroach Bay "ramp" (the state could spend a few bucks on that place, seriously) and ran straight to the bridge to get bait with the rest of the mob of boats. The bait was all scaled sardines. Which I can't say I've ever seen before around the pier. We filled a cooler with them (apparently not the best live bait but great cut up) and headed for the bridge. Limited on nice sized mangos in maybe 30 mins. I'd say the average was 12" or so. Then we ran back up the bay to catch trout. Managed 4 nice keepers and had to throw back a gator because we had one over 19" for the boat already. Also caught a nice big spanish. Tried for some reds and snook for the rest of the trip. Killed the snook, they were pretty thick and eating anything that moved. A few were nice but not quite slot sized (closed anyway). Hooked up with a couple reds (we think, anyway) but didn't get any to the boat between break offs and hook pulls.
This is a good outfit if you're looking for a bay trip for 2-4 guys. His boat is a big wide bay boat. Fast and dry, great boat to fish from. Also worth noting that the boat has a spotlock trolling motor and power poles, so they spent zero time fiddling with anchors. This was the first trip for me with them but I'll certainly book again.
Shame those mangos aren't thick like that under the actual pier. Or maybe they are and I've just never run into them. The bigger ones are fun to catch.
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Post by tears143 on May 2, 2022 12:47:21 GMT -5
Had a buddy in from PA this weekend so we grabbed a full day trip with Badfish Charters. Started out at 6:30am at Cockroach Bay "ramp" (the state could spend a few bucks on that place, seriously) and ran straight to the bridge to get bait with the rest of the mob of boats. The bait was all scaled sardines. Which I can't say I've ever seen before around the pier. We filled a cooler with them (apparently not the best live bait but great cut up) and headed for the bridge. Limited on nice sized mangos in maybe 30 mins. I'd say the average was 12" or so. Then we ran back up the bay to catch trout. Managed 4 nice keepers and had to throw back a gator because we had one over 19" for the boat already. Also caught a nice big spanish. Tried for some reds and snook for the rest of the trip. Killed the snook, they were pretty thick and eating anything that moved. A few were nice but not quite slot sized (closed anyway). Hooked up with a couple reds (we think, anyway) but didn't get any to the boat between break offs and hook pulls. This is a good outfit if you're looking for a bay trip for 2-4 guys. His boat is a big wide bay boat. Fast and dry, great boat to fish from. Also worth noting that the boat has a spotlock trolling motor and power poles, so they spent zero time fiddling with anchors. This was the first trip for me with them but I'll certainly book again. Shame those mangos aren't thick like that under the actual pier. Or maybe they are and I've just never run into them. The bigger ones are fun to catch. I think most snapper right now are near the shipping channel. Don't find any good size one at my usual spot at skyway... As for the bait... I think you mean threadfin? Those guy are the one that dies fast... Not very good live bait but great for cut bait. |
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Post by skywaypa on May 2, 2022 17:47:30 GMT -5
As for the bait... I think you mean threadfin? Those guy are the one that dies fast... Not very good live bait but great for cut bait. There are three main "minnow" type baits around here. And everyone calls them something different. And Half of us probably misidentify them also.  Top one: Threadfin, aka greenbacks or greenies are the easiest to ID. They have a thread from their dorsal fin and the top/back of them is green. Middle: what I call pilchards or white bait or the internets say "scaled sardine" but I've never heard that name for them. The third one is a sardine. Or spanish sardine. I said scaled sardine in my original post and that's wrong I guess. But you could see that they were long and skinny and NOT pilchard shaped. I kind of wanted to try cooking them. And might have if we didn't have a mess of fish. |
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Post by tears143 on May 2, 2022 18:08:53 GMT -5
Ah Spanish sardine! They are very good live bait as well as dead. They are good to cook as well. They are around this time of the yr.
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Post by fishsci on May 2, 2022 21:15:21 GMT -5
Why not start using the correct names for these and other fish here? The American Fisheries Society list the scientifically approved common name for all fish.
Calling them threadfins just shows lack of knowlege. They are Atlantic thread herring.
Whitebait is not only incorrect, but it confuses people. All these sardine-like fish look white. The approved common name is scaled sardine. It makes sense, when you consider how strongly the scales are on this species, compared to the other two.
Sardine is a very general term and not a correct name. Sardines, here in Florida come in a can. They come from cold waters. Spanish sardine, is the common name, and it makes sense because the species is most abundant in tropical waters of Central and South America -- where they are an important food fish.
It is time to give up all those good-ole-boys local, but incorrect, names, like mango snapper, or like gag grouper used to be very incorrectly called black grouper along the Suncoast. Using incorrect local names just makes fishermen look ignorant.
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Post by Flatsrunner on May 2, 2022 21:52:26 GMT -5
If I wanted to be corrected every time I would stay home.In the long run it doesn't justify calling someone ignorant.
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Post by seabird on May 3, 2022 4:10:50 GMT -5
Thanks for posting the pictures of the commonly caught bait. I know I have mislabeled them.
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Post by snapperx on May 3, 2022 4:25:11 GMT -5
top to bottom
threadfin/sardine
greenback
cigar minnow
good thing wasn't a test. wow
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Post by carlf on May 3, 2022 6:53:05 GMT -5
This is why local names for fish can be so confusing!
Accepted common names:
1. Atlantic Thread Herring (Opisthonema oglinum)
2. Scaled Sardine (Harengula jaguana, I've heard them called greenbacks, LYs, pilchards, etc..)
3. Spanish Sardine (Sardinella aurita)
Cigar minnows are various species of scad, here mostly round scad (Decapterus punctatus). They are actually in the jack family.
Mangrove snapper or gray snapper (Lutjanus griseus), never heard them called Mango snapper until I came down here.
People on the northern gulf call Vermillion snapper (Rhomboplites aurorubens) "mangos" and "beeliners".
Now that we've totally hijacked this thread, sounds like a nice trip. I need to get my boat running (fuel supply issue with my Merc 25hp) and start fishing the Gandy.
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Post by Flatsrunner on May 3, 2022 9:19:21 GMT -5
been fishing the skyway area for years now, ever since the piney point issues that area has gone downhill may start looking farther north myself.
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Post by skywaypa on May 3, 2022 10:22:15 GMT -5
A maybe better pic of those baits. For me, the easiest one to ID is the top one. Besides the dorsal thread, when you look down at a school of these in the water they will be noticeably green. Especially the bigger ones. Now I don't know why one is a better bait than the other, which live longer in the livewell, etc. I typically just sabiki up a few and use them. I can say that I want to see one of those top two even 12" in size. I have seen big pogies (menhaden / fourth pic) up North. But never really big greenies or scaled sardines down here. I've caught greenies around the pier that were every bit of 8" and thought those were monsters.  Finally cigar minnows I don't think you ever catch with a net. I've only ever seen people sabiki-ing them from deeper water. They are shaped like the spanish sardine but lots of differences. You'd not mistake them side by side. |
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Post by fishsci on May 3, 2022 12:07:18 GMT -5
If I wanted to be corrected every time I would stay home.In the long run it doesn't justify calling someone ignorant. Just to be clear, absolutely nobody called you, or anyone ignorant. I said using names that are not the real names makes fishermen look ignorant. For example, if someone who is not a fisherman, or maybe a fishery manager, hears someone talking about mangos, that person will think that the fisherman who talked about mangos is not very intellilgent or educated. That ends up hurting fishermen when the public thus thinks that most fishermen are not very bright. |
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Post by Flatsrunner on May 3, 2022 12:59:41 GMT -5
Possibly you should choose your words more carefully, there's a big difference from being uninformed or mislabeling something to being called ignorant as a group or Individual.
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Post by skywaypa on May 3, 2022 14:48:22 GMT -5
I wasn't offended, mostly because I don't care. I don't talk to "the public" and I wouldn't expect non_fishing people to be reading this board. There is a ton of slang that fishermen use daily, and a lot of it is local. Hell those "trout" we caught are actually DRUM. lol
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Post by fishsci on May 3, 2022 15:40:16 GMT -5
Actually, the approved (AFS) name for that species is "Spotted Seatrout", and yes they are in the drum family,,,which is very far removed from the freshwater trout/salmon family, Salmonidae. So even the experts do not reject local names, but instead try to find one to settle on so that confusion is reduced.
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Post by phishead on May 3, 2022 15:54:32 GMT -5
I personally think scientifically approved common names are a bunch of hogwash. If you want to be correct, use Latin. Till then, relax. I never met a fisheries manager who thought someone was uneducated or ignorant due to the use of unofficial common names. However I could see that an overeducated college grad take offense to misuse of “approved” names.
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Post by fishsci on May 3, 2022 21:23:58 GMT -5
I personally think scientifically approved common names are a bunch of hogwash. If you want to be correct, use Latin. Till then, relax. I never met a fisheries manager who thought someone was uneducated or ignorant due to the use of unofficial common names. However I could see that an overeducated college grad take offense to misuse of “approved” names. Lord help us from education...Well said, and it shows a lot about you. |
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Post by carlf on May 4, 2022 4:56:19 GMT -5
Best example is when all the charter boats call grunts “white snapper”. Cause it sounds better than “ grunt”!
Biologist (self included) use accepted common names to avoid having to spout hard to pronounce Latin names during conversation and in technical papers. It avoids confusion about which species is being discussed in conversations.
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Post by phishead on May 4, 2022 7:21:04 GMT -5
I personally think scientifically approved common names are a bunch of hogwash. If you want to be correct, use Latin. Till then, relax. I never met a fisheries manager who thought someone was uneducated or ignorant due to the use of unofficial common names. However I could see that an overeducated college grad take offense to misuse of “approved” names. Lord help us from education...Well said, and it shows a lot about you. Lord help us from overeducated, pompous know it alls. I personally have marine science major and multiple minors within this field. I never bring it into the conversation. I also have been in the marine fish industry for over 30 years. And to this day, never met anyone who thought of anyone as ignorant just because they did not use “proper” common names. Every fish in the world has dozens of common names. And no one in the right mind would expect someone to be versed in the “approved” common names. Nothing more I dislike then people flashing their education. In fact, when I hire people, I read their letter first, experience second, and education last. I find it the least important. |
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