fishtailz
Rod Polisher
Hour and a half drive to get there but love the skyway piers. Big fish available.
Posts: 119
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WIRE
Sept 23, 2023 16:01:58 GMT -5
Post by fishtailz on Sept 23, 2023 16:01:58 GMT -5
The last time I caught a bunch of Macs was on shrimp with just a splitshot. Got cut off left and right. Read recently about using single strand wire to eliminate that problem. Haven't seen any posts talking about wire and wondering why. Any comments or thoughts?
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WIRE
Sept 23, 2023 16:26:45 GMT -5
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Post by conureman on Sept 23, 2023 16:26:45 GMT -5
The last time I caught a bunch of Macs was on shrimp with just a splitshot. Got cut off left and right. Read recently about using single strand wire to eliminate that problem. Haven't seen any posts talking about wire and wondering why. Any comments or thoughts? From what I heard and read is that you get less bites on wire as they have good eyesight.
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Post by stuckintherocks on Sept 23, 2023 16:40:13 GMT -5
With live bait I would try a long shank hook before using any wire, I was at the pier the other day, the Mack’s were chewing and I quickly realized I only had 15lb leader and 40lb.. 15 kept getting cut off but even upsizing to 40lb mono I did not get a single bite for over an hour, switched back to the 15 and started getting bites again almost instantly. Just food for thought
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Post by Flatsrunner on Sept 23, 2023 17:26:59 GMT -5
Long shank hooks work for me,it will keep you from getting as many cut-off, maybe 20lb mono for leader or 30 lb. should be enough. save the wire for Kings.
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Post by carlf on Sept 23, 2023 17:30:56 GMT -5
If you use wire, use the flat colored single strand in as small a size as you can find, which I think is 27#. Small black swivel and only 4-6" of wire. Same with mono, don't put on 2', you only need 4-6", no swivel, just a loop. In clear water you will get less bites unless it's a flat out chew down. But you also won't lose a pile of hooks
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Post by cabowabo on Sept 24, 2023 9:04:06 GMT -5
If you know for a fact your only going to be throwing at spanish then use mono/flouro. Start with 40-50lb and like others have said use a long shank hook that preferably is silver.
Wire, IMO, should only be utilized when you know Kings are also around and have the potential for striking your bait. Which is next to never at the skyway.
In the panhandle gulf piers, we use wire only because we don't want to run the risk of hooking a king while snobbling baits or throwing plugs.
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Post by shot33gun9 on Sept 24, 2023 12:08:35 GMT -5
For anyone that decides to use wire I recommend Knot2Kinky nickel-titanium. Kink resistant, stretches and recovers, corrosion proof, runs straight, and can be tied. 25lb test has .014" diameter, single strand. Haywire twist won't work with this wire. I use it with jigs and small Rattletraps
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WIRE
Sept 24, 2023 20:24:05 GMT -5
Post by fishsci on Sept 24, 2023 20:24:05 GMT -5
For anyone that decides to use wire I recommend Knot2Kinky nickel-titanium. Kink resistant, stretches and recovers, corrosion proof, runs straight, and can be tied. 25lb test has .014" diameter, single strand. Haywire twist won't work with this wire. I use it with jigs and small Rattletraps I have tried that type of wire, because is sounded so good, but I never found a good method to tie it to mono. The knot that the package recommends is a big, loopy knot. Do you have a way to tie it to say 15-25 mono without a big loose knot? Alternatively, I use #2 brown stainless leader wire, making the smallest possible leader with very small loop haywire twists at the hook and at the leader end. Even a 2-inch leader made that way can turn a regular hook into a very long-shank hook, or can protect your spoon or jig from most cutoffs. Contrary to popular convention, I have found that there is no neetd for a swivel -- that would make the leader extremely obvious to the fish. I have never had a problem with the wire cutting the mono tying mono drectly to the small haywire loop with mono as light as 15#.
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WIRE
Sept 25, 2023 7:11:13 GMT -5
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Post by cabowabo on Sept 25, 2023 7:11:13 GMT -5
For anyone that decides to use wire I recommend Knot2Kinky nickel-titanium. Kink resistant, stretches and recovers, corrosion proof, runs straight, and can be tied. 25lb test has .014" diameter, single strand. Haywire twist won't work with this wire. I use it with jigs and small Rattletraps I have tried that type of wire, because is sounded so good, but I never found a good method to tie it to mono. The knot that the package recommends is a big, loopy knot. Do you have a way to tie it to say 15-25 mono without a big loose knot? Alternatively, I use #2 brown stainless leader wire, making the smallest possible leader with very small loop haywire twists at the hook and at the leader end. Even a 2-inch leader made that way can turn a regular hook into a very long-shank hook, or can protect your spoon or jig from most cutoffs. Contrary to popular convention, I have found that there is no neetd for a swivel -- that would make the leader extremely obvious to the fish. I have never had a problem with the wire cutting the mono tying mono drectly to the small haywire loop with mono as light as 15#.Look up the improved albright for your mono to wire knot.... using a haywire twist to form a loop that you use to attach your mono will eventually lead to major problems for fish that aren't more than 5#s ever. Will also save you time retying not having to haywire both sides of the wire.
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Post by carlf on Sept 25, 2023 7:15:49 GMT -5
I never mastered tying mono to wire, so I use the smallest swivel I could get away with.
In the panhandle gulf piers, we use wire only because we don't want to run the risk of hooking a king while snobbling baits or throwing plugs.
Yep, exactly.
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WIRE
Sept 25, 2023 9:31:36 GMT -5
Post by fishsci on Sept 25, 2023 9:31:36 GMT -5
I have tried that type of wire, because is sounded so good, but I never found a good method to tie it to mono. The knot that the package recommends is a big, loopy knot. Do you have a way to tie it to say 15-25 mono without a big loose knot? Alternatively, I use #2 brown stainless leader wire, making the smallest possible leader with very small loop haywire twists at the hook and at the leader end. Even a 2-inch leader made that way can turn a regular hook into a very long-shank hook, or can protect your spoon or jig from most cutoffs. Contrary to popular convention, I have found that there is no neetd for a swivel -- that would make the leader extremely obvious to the fish. I have never had a problem with the wire cutting the mono tying mono drectly to the small haywire loop with mono as light as 15#.Look up the improved albright for your mono to wire knot.... using a haywire twist to form a loop that you use to attach your mono will eventually lead to major problems for fish that aren't more than 5#s ever. Will also save you time retying not having to haywire both sides of the wire. You are correct that the Albright or Improved Albright is the superior way to tie mono directly to wire. Expert charter captains use it for their king mackerel rigs, using it to attach a #5 bronze leader wire for a short trace (maybe 6 inches) to a long 30-40# mono leader that is typically attached to a main line of around 15-20 lb test. The trace is connected to a single hook. A stinger rig consisting of about 3-4 inches (depending on the bait size) of #5 wire with a 3x treblel hook is wired to the hook eye (also through the hook haywire loop). However, the point I was trying to make is that for Spanish mackerel, and couple inch wire leader, you can just make a tiny haywire loop (needle nose pliers help)and tie directly to it with your mono leader that typically is around 30 lb-test. Using a swivel or tying an Albright (that is difficult to tie in such a short length of wire, and which results in a much bigger knot with 15 turns of mono around the wire) is unnecessary. Plus, fishing a very short wire leader often results in nicks in the mono just above the wire, so you want a knot that is quickly and easily (not complicated like the Albright) so you can frequently cut off the weakened mono and rety. As for Carlf's issue of tying mono to the haywire loop, you can simply tie an unimproved clinch not (being careful to use your fingers tight around the wire loop to keep the mono from sliding down and around the loop as you tighten the clinch knot. Another way is to tie a uniknot, tighten it down such that it can barely be slid down to the haywire loop and thus kept from sliding over the haywire loop. If tying to heavier mono like 25-30# a simple loop knot can be used. Once you get the hang of it, that loop knot can be tied such that it is a tiny loop and hence a very small knot and not easy to be seen by the mackerel (far less apparent than even the smallest swivel). Yes, using any of these knots, the knot strength will probably be only 75% of the mono strength, but for Spanish mackerel the ultimate 12-20-lb strength is more than enough.
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WIRE
Sept 25, 2023 10:08:54 GMT -5
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Post by shot33gun9 on Sept 25, 2023 10:08:54 GMT -5
I use a Spro Power Swivel, size 8, 50lb test. It's a beast to tie as they are the smallest I've seen. I pre-rig a couple at home, no way I would be able to rig one on the pier. I would not trust it on big fish either. For me it's just something to play with at times, I don't use bait much for any fish. I made some lures from brown surgical tubing once, with a small treble out the back end attached to same wire, looked like a shrimp moving on the surface, caught a few macks with it
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WIRE
Sept 25, 2023 11:02:07 GMT -5
Post by cabowabo on Sept 25, 2023 11:02:07 GMT -5
This is the lightest wire i have. Like 27 or 44lb to 15lb izorline xxx which is 15lb mono. This took me under 60 seconds to tie. With the albright and the haywire twist you use. Slightly larger than the 2inches you state but this could easily be tied all way down to a 1inch bite tippet if you wanted. Maybe my fingers are just that good but i highly doubt it. Anyone can tie this with 30minuites of practice in under 120 seconds. That knot is as strong as it could ever be and its virtually invisible, infact the mono covers the wire at the knot thus causing it to look transparent. Just takes practice and highly worth learning to where it can done anywhere quickly.... also 15 turns of the line for anything other than a FG or bimini twist is absolutely ridiculous...
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Post by Flatsrunner on Sept 25, 2023 14:42:43 GMT -5
You are correct that the Albright or Improved Albright is the superior way to tie mono directly to wire. Expert charter captains use it for their king mackerel rigs, using it to attach a #5 bronze leader wire for a short trace (maybe 6 inches) to a long 30-40# mono leader that is typically attached to a main line of around 15-20 lb test. The trace is connected to a single hook. A stinger rig consisting of about 3-4 inches (depending on the bait size) of #5 wire with a 3x treblel hook is wired to the hook eye (also through the hook haywire loop). However, the point I was trying to make is that for Spanish mackerel, and couple inch wire leader, you can just make a tiny haywire loop (needle nose pliers help)and tie directly to it with your mono leader that typically is around 30 lb-test. Using a swivel or tying an Albright (that is difficult to tie in such a short length of wire, and which results in a much bigger knot with 15 turns of mono around the wire) is unnecessary. Plus, fishing a very short wire leader often results in nicks in the mono just above the wire, so you want a knot that is quickly and easily (not complicated like the Albright) so you can frequently cut off the weakened mono and rety. As for Carlf's issue of tying mono to the haywire loop, you can simply tie an unimproved clinch not (being careful to use your fingers tight around the wire loop to keep the mono from sliding down and around the loop as you tighten the clinch knot. Another way is to tie a uniknot, tighten it down such that it can barely be slid down to the haywire loop and thus kept from sliding over the haywire loop. If tying to heavier mono like 25-30# a simple loop knot can be used. Once you get the hang of it, that loop knot can be tied such that it is a tiny loop and hence a very small knot and not easy to be seen by the mackerel (far less apparent than even the smallest swivel). Yes, using any of these knots, the knot strength will probably be only 75% of the mono strength, but for Spanish mackerel the ultimate 12-20-lb strength is more than enough. Feels like I'm reading someone's manifesto, 1000 words read and 34000 to go. This is the lightest wire i have. Like 27 or 44lb to 15lb izorline xxx which is 15lb mono. This took me under 60 seconds to tie. With the albright and the haywire twist you use. Slightly larger than the 2inches you state but this could easily be tied all way down to a 1inch bite tippet if you wanted. Maybe my fingers are just that good but i highly doubt it. Anyone can tie this with 30minuites of practice in under 120 seconds. That knot is as strong as it could ever be and its virtually invisible, infact the mono covers the wire at the knot thus causing it to look transparent. Just takes practice and highly worth learning to where it can done anywhere quickly.... also 15 turns of the line for anything other than a FG or bimini twist is absolutely ridiculous...
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Post by shot33gun9 on Sept 25, 2023 16:56:29 GMT -5
LOL flatsrunner.....all that text makes my head hurt
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WIRE
Sept 25, 2023 18:14:47 GMT -5
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Post by cabowabo on Sept 25, 2023 18:14:47 GMT -5
I removed the quotes in my reply because some gentlemen i guess can't comprehend when we got too many words, bamboozling the mind.
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WIRE
Sept 25, 2023 18:31:37 GMT -5
Post by Flatsrunner on Sept 25, 2023 18:31:37 GMT -5
I removed the quotes in my reply because some gentlemen i guess can't comprehend when we got too many words, bamboozling the mind. Wasn't directed at you but do as you wish.
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WIRE
Sept 25, 2023 20:23:58 GMT -5
Post by fishsci on Sept 25, 2023 20:23:58 GMT -5
I am impressed,Cabowaber, with your ability to so quickly tie that Albright knot. I guess I should try it with a little more practice. For those whose minds are unable to handle something more complex, it is just put out there for those who want it and can handle it. It can be useful to some. Do you, Flatsrunner, really have a problem with that? Or are you just looking for any chance to attack people?
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WIRE
Sept 26, 2023 9:32:39 GMT -5
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Post by shot33gun9 on Sept 26, 2023 9:32:39 GMT -5
A while back I watched a guy tie a 20 wrap FG in less than a minute, but he wore a younger mans clothes, still had good eyes, and his fingers weren't stiff...like mine
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WIRE
Sept 26, 2023 12:28:44 GMT -5
Post by fishsci on Sept 26, 2023 12:28:44 GMT -5
An "official" Improved Albright is ten turns down and five turns up -- not as complicated as a FG, but not very easy to tie. However, it is useful to hear from Cabowabo that many fewer wraps work for this mackerel leader application. It also looks from his images that he is tying an original Albright, one that only has turns down, none up, and not even 10 down. That looks like it is worth trying. The only other problem with the Albright approach for very short bite tips is that when the leader just above the knot gets nicks from mackerel teeth, you have to start all over with a hook, new length of wire new haywire, and new Albright, because otherwise it would shorten your wire to almost nothing. As for tiny swivels, it has to be admitted that they might be as effective as a direct wire to mono knot. Or maybe they are just as good in all but the clearest water. It is almost impossible to know for sure.
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Post by shot33gun9 on Sept 26, 2023 12:51:01 GMT -5
Actually Spro makes a smaller swivel, size 10 rated at 35lbs, not much bigger than wire..lol
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