6/21 SSP Report

[sircatfish]

Woke up at 5 am and had an itch to fish. I live in Englewood and have been relentlessly fishing my waters with no success lately with all this poopy weather. Randomly decided I would make the hour drive to search for Mr. Groupa.

Got to South Pier at 7:30. WINDY as crap! Sabikid up some 5-6 in. threadfins and tipped my sabiki with shrimp bits for pinfish. Baitfishing was easy. Threw out a pin for Mr. Groupa. Soaked for 5 hrs with multiple casts on different reefs with no success. Gotcha plugged and spooned for macks with zero success, although I had a nice redfish follow my spoon all the way to the pier but he was too shy.

Needed more pinfish, so I shrimp-bitted my sabiki down and insta-caught a pinfish on the bottom hook and a 14" mackerel on the top hook. Used the absolute smallest sabiki size possible and was flabbergasted that the mack didn't cut me off! Dinner.

Storm was coming in from south west. I could see the rain coming. As soon as the temperature dropped and wind picked up my pinfish deployed on the reef started freaking out. I was 30 ft away from my groupa rod while fiddling with the snappers at the rock pile to the south of it hoping to score.

My rod started screaming bloody murder and I ran (I'm almost 30 with the back of a 65 yr old, I don't know if "running" is the correct term) over to it. The drag stopped and by the time I tightened my drag and the line I could tell I was rocked up. The more tension I created the deeper he went into the rocks until he broke me off....he was large.....very large.

Lesson learned: 3 foot of 60 lb leader is not nearly long enough if I want to catch my first keeper grouper at the skyway.

Tight lines.

[sircatfish]

Also sabiki'd up a bunch of large spot tail pins but threw them back. Are they good to eat? Seabird?

[SkyJay]

wrong lesson
one man one rod and never sit that rod down
with a bait in the water, Gag fishing. Thats the lesson.

Your story is a classic one told many many times.
But youre right 60 lb leader wont
always get it done in the rockpiles.
I used 100 at the pier, and have heard of
folks using 120. Those rocks are sharp
and theres miles of braided line weaved
all about.
Good report. Better luck next time.

[sircatfish]

I feel like I would be holding my rod for hours and not getting anything though? I'm ADHD and have to constantly be throwing another bait out while waiting for "the big one" to bite my other rod...can you elaberate a little more on your skyway grouper tactics? Holding just one rod waiting for a grouper to bite for 7 hours would make me want to rip my hair out, maybe that's just me and maybe grouper fishing ain't for me? I dunno. I really want to catch one though.

[snookninja]

Great report Sir CF.

On the leader strength I have moved to an 80lb mono topshot of around 30 yards. So I have 130 Hollow core braid (380 yards) then a 80lb mono topshot, tied to an 80lb fluro leader. I use 80lb fluro leader as it's the best price point, the cost goes up way to high for my tastes when you go 100 or 125lb. My fishing buddy uses 125 mono as a leader and he catches just as much if not more than I do.

The mono topshot has better abrasion resistance and I've been having far better landing to hook up rates since I made the switch. Tying an FG knot helps it go through the guides and also helps it lay on the spool better.

Good luck!

[SkyJay]

ADHD as they come here too so I can relate.
I know the temptatation to soak a line and
fish a smaller rod to stay busy...
been there done that trust me.
And Im not admonishing you,
Ive done it a million times myself.
And 9 times out of 10 I get the same result.
Rocked Up.
When the really big Grouper hit you at the pier
you have to be ready,.
The cards are already stacked against you.
Youre up above the water with a mile of line
out.
Fishing for a bad a s s fish that lives in
a rockpike , and dives into those rocks
the first sign of trouble.
Surrounded by jagged structure.
So when youre fishing with a snow balls
chance in Hades, you need to create advantages
for yourself. And sitting your pole down while
youre Gag fishing is only adding to your disadvatages.
How can I create advantages you might ask?
Well number 1 is like I said always be ready, because
I promise you, the sobs will always hit you
when youre not. lol
You need every split second of torque and leverage
to have a prayer turning these fish.
When you get hit you gotta crank like theres no
tomorow, and get as tight as fast as you possibly
can, even running backwards into the road
when its safe.
You gotta crank, crank, crank and keep on
cranking and get that fishes head pointed
towards you.
And then you crank some more.
Go to Huys video and watch it over and over.
Its the best example of what Im trying
to tell you.
Try freelining that bait out from diferent
angles.
Most hits come when the bait is naturally
drifting towards the rocks and not away from.
Walk your bait up and down and imagine
you are bass fishing a shoreline.
Try to cover as much area as possible.
Stick , and move.
Use heavy tackle, 80-100 lb braid(i use
high vis to help detect bites in windy
conditions ) FG knot to good long topshot
of premium 100-120 lb test mono.
its up to you on the Florocarbon, I use Pink
Yozuri.
Keep a good fresh and lively pinfish on at all
times.
I usually dont even start grouper fishing til
i have at least a dozen or three good big lively
pinners in my well.
If you get bored and wanna fish for smaller
fish fine, put your Grouper stick away,
and fish for smaller fish, because we both
know what the end result will be now, right?
You got it😜 all rocked up again.
Oh yeah, and then theres the part about
the poor fish that I think people totally
miss out on.
Now the fish has to try to survive with
a hook in his mouth trailing 3 ft of heavy leader
line.
These guys I understand from all the reports
are getting more and more scarce.
So we need to all do our part right? lol
anyways, hope that helps.
Think about it like this.
You invested all that time trying to catch a Gag.
Your bite came when you sat your pole
down to mess with the Snappers.
Just a little bit longer and you would have been
holding your rod when he bit.
And who knows? You might have been
giving an entirely diferent report then.
Go watch Huys video.
Huys the man now.

[Mackerelman]

I have to say that Huy's Video is Fantastic.       

It make Me want to go out there Right Now.  

[havetofish]

Great summary on Gags SkyJay. And people wonder why you need such heavy gear at the pier, but what other pier do you have a chance to catch a keeper gag on.
One other thing on Gags. If the Gag hasn't totally snagged himself in the rocks, it pays to wait a while to see if he comes out again. At least leave your rod in the holder, lock down the drag, take up any slack and keep an eye on it and the line. I have waited over an hour and still got a few that way. If a Gag is just in his hole with his gills flared, you may have a chance. Of course you may need another rod to continue fishing for another one in the meantime.

Edit: Oh, and if your freelining, then you need to be constantly repositioning the bait anyway. That will keep you busy.

[blacktip]

thanks for the report

[seabird]

Sircatfish: Interesting report! That was odd catching a 14 inch mack on a bait sabiki when I have had hooks bitten off by macks using a 30/40 pound rig. You were lucky and got dinner!
Regarding spot tails, they are good. Shaped almost like blue gills and fat. Decent sized ones put a nice fight on light tackle. Good luck with future grouper fishing.

[tylerdurden]

The old skyway shuffle. Run back with your rod as soon as biting.

Thanks skyjay, dissappointed you didn't put it in limmeric form this time

[YodaFisherman]

I have tried many different setups and methods fishing for Gags on the Skyway, many as a result of suggestions on this forum. I may not have the hours/years experience many have, but I have learned a lot during my 2 or 3 one week long visits a year over the last 6 years.



1) Leader Strength: Some suggest to have the leader lighter than the main line to save main line when you get hung up and have to snap or cut the line. Some suggest the heaviest leader possible to protect from the sharp edges on the rocks. I have found that most times the leader is cut by the rocks, you very rarely have to cut your line as a result of snagging. So my preference it to have the leader as strong as possible, but within reason, too heavy a leader on a small hook can be a mess. I use 60 lb fluorocarbon leader if I'm using a 5/0 or 7/0 hook and 80 lb if I'm using a 9/0 hook. Since many use heavy braided line, as I now do, the leader will be lighter than the mainline anyway.



2) Leader Length: The most common suggestions range from 4 feet to 10 feet. My experience has shown than when the line is cut on the rocks it usually happens within the first 4 feet of the hook. Since fluorocarbon leader material is so expensive I use 6 foot leaders.



3) Hook Size: This I struggle with. Grouper have big mouths, even a 18" Gag can get a 9/0 hook in its mouth, however, I have caught a few mangrove snapper on the pinfish while grouper fishing. They can't get that big hook in their mouths. I snagged a 16" Mangrove in the cheek with a 4” pinfish on a 9/0 hook once. So at the moment I use a 5/0 Gamakatsu Octopus Circle Hook.



4) Mainline strength: I have seen suggestions as high as 100 lb braid in this forum. And have seen many heated discussions, with me as one of the detractors, but there is a lot to consider here. Why use a line many times heavier that the reels max drag? Why use a line many times heavier than the rods max line rating? Sure those are only suggested ratings right? Well when I finally realized that you should keep the reel drag locked down, to keep the grouper from reaching the rocks, did it dawn on me why the heavy line strength was being suggested. So, if the reel’s drag is locked the weak link is the rod, right? Now it’s my opinion that using line many times heavier than the rods ratings is overkill. The rod I currently use has a max line rating of 40 lbs. so the line I use is 65lb braid.



5) Rod Size: I have used so many different rods from the Skyway piers and hooked grouper with several. The ones with the most hookups are 7’ medium heavy rods, a few boat rods and several surf rods. I like the length of the surf rods for their ability to help steer and control the fish. Sure the boat rods have the ability to horse the fish up but I find I feel more in control with the longer rods. Also the longer rods help with lifting the fish up onto the pier if you’re not using a drop net. My current grouper rod is a 12' Penn Prevail heavy surf rod.



6) The Reel: All kinds of discussion could occur here, but I’ll keep is simple. I like conventional reels and also like lever drag systems. So not many options there, my choice is the Penn Squall 30LD.



7) Weights: I have seen many comments on the use of weights from zero to 4 oz. My experience is that free lining with no weight at all is the best way to go from the piers. Although I will on occasion, when the current is strong, use between a 2 to 4 oz. egg sinker on the line.



8) Terminal Tackle: This is a place many don’t consider when fishing. There are many different kinds of terminal tackle. Barrel swivels, snap swivels, rings, and even none (using line knots). I know snap swivels are great for convenience when switching setups, (I use them always when surf fishing) but when fishing for grouper there is little need for that. I have used just a line knot and prefer that to using any kind of swivel. It works well when using monofilament mainline, but I find that line knots are not as reliable when using braid mainline. Using a swivel that is too small can cause trouble. Always use a swivel at least 50% stronger than heaviest line being used. Currently I use a 100 lb barrel swivel.



So, my current Skyway grouper setup is;

    12’ Penn Prevail Conventional Surf Rod

    Penn Squall 30LD Reel

    65’ braid mainline

    100 lb. barrel swivel

    6’ of 60 lb fluorocarbon leader

    5/0 Gamakatsu Octopus Circle Hook

[justfish]

The force is strong with this one, lol couldn't resist. I agree with everything except please never cut your line if snagged. I've seen it happen way too many times, they cut the line cuz they can't break it just to cast out and get snagged on the line they just cut.

[YodaFisherman]

Jun 23, 2017 9:02:00 GMT -5 justfish said:

The force is strong with this one, lol couldn't resist. I agree with everything except please never cut your line if snagged. I've seen it happen way too many times, they cut the line cuz they can't break it just to cast out and get snagged on the line they just cut.

It's funny, I never meant the Yodafisherman to infer than I'm a fishing master. It was meant to be a play on words. I'm not a fisherman Yo-da-fisherman. 

At some point you need to cut. We are now using line so strong that snapping it is all but impossible.

I once worked in a test lab and spent some weekends playing with testing monofilament line and knots (this was 25+ years ago, before braid and fluorocarbon). That line rating is really just a reference for the test results at a specific line length. I once set up 12lb line and walked out of the lab and clear across the shop and pulled until the line snapped. The line was about 150' long. The breaking result on the force gage was 37 lbs. The longer the line, the force it will take to get the line to snap could be enormous, not to mention that it will put undo stress on the equipment and also render the line you get to keep useless because you have stretched is all out. It's unfortunate, but if you get hung up and the line wont break on it's own, without muscling it, the only thing you can do is cut.

One foot long pieces of the 12lb line would snap at about 7 lbs.

[seabird]

yodafisherman: That treatise on the set up for skyway grouper fishing was really informative. You may want to put that posting in the Sticky section. The force is strong with your writing.

[YodaFisherman]

Jun 23, 2017 13:37:10 GMT -5 seabird said:

yodafisherman: That treatise on the set up for skyway grouper fishing was really informative. You may want to put that posting in the Sticky section. The force is strong with your writing.

Which Sticky do you think I should put it under?

[seabird]

Jun 23, 2017 14:36:00 GMT -5 YodaFisherman said:

Jun 23, 2017 13:37:10 GMT -5 seabird said:

yodafisherman: That treatise on the set up for skyway grouper fishing was really informative. You may want to put that posting in the Sticky section. The force is strong with your writing.

Which Sticky do you think I should put it under?

Not sure. Havetofish or mackerelman would have a better idea.

[Mackerelman]

YodaFisherman:

Yes Put It Up In the Sticky Section. That is where it belongs.

[sircatfish]

Thanks for all the advice guys!!! Next time I am up there I will be a tad bit more prepared now.